Mon wiki - pele_mele:stack_exchange:seasoned_advice

78840

anonymous@undisclosed.example.com (Anonymous) — Sat, 23 Nov 2024 11:56:04 +0000

How to modify a bread recipe to accomodate longer proofing times?

I used to bake a lot but since I've switch jobs, I do not have enough time in the evening anymore. But I work really close from home so I can go home for lunch if needed.

My idea is to start the bread in the morning before work, then return for the second kneading during lunch, then I can bake it at night. I know that I need to lower the temperature during the proofing, so I though of putting the dough in the refrigerator.

Will this work? Is there other ways to achieve what I'd like?

Aside from (or even instead of) lowering the temperature, you can drastically reduce the yeast; it will take time for the smaller initial yeast population to multiply to a similar population as the larger amount of yeast to start with, and this will reduce the activity of the dough.

As a generally salt-avoiding person, I hesitate to say, but will, that additional salt also slows things down, ferment-wise. It will impact flavor, of course, and at some point become effectively inedible, so don't overdo that.

If your recipe uses any sugar, you can reduce or remove it…but that will also affect browning and flavor.

You may find that the refrigerator slows things down too much to get a loaf risen in the course of a day - or you may need to go the opposite direction on the various yeast-retarding things I just mentioned to overcome the refrigerator temperature on your timescale. Or you can extend your timescale to suit, as needed.

I suggest checking out the bread books by Francois and Hertzberg starting with Artisan Breads in 5 Minutes a Day. Their techniques are designed to do things like over the weekend mix up several loafs worth of dough and proof it. Then, when ready to use, take part of it out for a final rise of about 20 minutes and bake which seems to be what you are after.

ETA: I suggest this because they have already done the experimenting. I am notoriously bad with bread that if I do one thing slightly wrong I get a brick instead of a loaf. All other cooking I treat recipes as a good starting point. But bread, I want someone else to get it right first, then I try to duplicate what they did.

Yes. You could buy a used refrigerator for the purpose of bread proofing, ferments, preferment's, sponges, sourdoughs etc.

keep the temp between 50f and 60f and adjust your formulas, timing or temps to accommodate your schedule. Once you establish a routine you will find it very efficient.

baking - How to modify a bread recipe to accomodate longer proofing times? - Seasoned Advice

79458

anonymous@undisclosed.example.com (Anonymous) — Sat, 23 Nov 2024 12:02:10 +0000

Why is eating pretzels safe when they are bathed in lye?

I read many recipes of pretzels and they required to dip the raw dough in a bath of lye. As anyone should know for their own safety, lye is caustic and shouldn't be ingested.

What is the process involved that make them edible?

Edit: I am aware of the action of the lye. I wonder how the non-edible lye on the dough is transformed into something that is safe to eat.

Basically, the lye reacts with the CO₂ and moisture present during baking to form a non-toxic carbonate. This makes it safe to eat.

The reaction:

CO₂ (g) + H₂O (l) ⇄ H₂CO₃ (aq)

H₂CO₃ (aq) + 2 NaOH (aq) → Na₂CO₃ (aq) + 2 H₂O (l)

From here (MS doc)

[EDIT]

Spurred by the comments, I have searched further.

tl;dr There is much going on wrt the lye dip. As far as safety goes, the lye is consumed in many reactions, including the above.

(Firstly: The equation source was not the basis of my answer; rather it was to refresh my memory of the reaction about which I was told/read several years ago was the reason why lye is safe to use on leavened breads, which was its combining with carbonic acid. (I apologize for not checking the balance adequately.)
My recent search only found one reference at The Kitchn

to the reaction of lye with carbonic acid as the reason for its safe use. It is also unsourced.

Simultaneously, I found a research paper and a Food Chem Blog entry which referenced it, both of which discussed the behavior of the lye bath on pretzels. There is a lot there, so I shall only quote the paper abstract:

The effects of alkali dipping on starch, protein, and color changes in hard pretzel products have never been researched. Experiments were conducted to mimic reactions occurring on the pretzel dough surface. Dough was dipped in water or 1% sodium hydroxide solution at different temperatures between 50°C and 80°C. Protein and starch profile after dipping were analyzed. Color development on pretzel surface following the extraction of pigments from flour was investigated. Whole dough and pretzel samples were also made at pilot plant and the properties were analyzed. Only starch granules on the dough surface were gelatinized following dipping. Amylose-lipid complex dissociated at a lower temperature with alkali treatment but were not dissociated, even at high-temperature dipping in water. Treating the dough at 80°C in alkali solution resulted in the hydrolysis of proteins into smaller peptides that could be not precipitated by trichloroacetic acid (TCA). Dough surface color was different following pigment extraction from flour but not significantly different following baking. The results suggest that the color that developed on pretzel surface was not due to pigments present in the flour but was contributed by the reaction within or between the starch and protein hydrolysis derivatives during baking.

and what I think is the pertinent quote from the blog:

The protein results (2 in the list above [reproduced following]) indicate that the lye dip provides the smaller proteins needed for Maillard reactions, whereas the water dip does not. This seemed like perhaps the most important point to me.

The dip resulted in the hydrolysis of protein into smaller peptides. This happened a little bit in 25°C water or lye dip, more in 80°C water, and a lot more in 80°C lye dip. Also, the smaller peptides in the hot lye dip had the smallest molecular weights; most of them “walked off” the electrophoresis gel, leaving no bands. The authors explain that the alkaline conditions of the lye dip result in like charges along the proteins, which repel and cause the proteins to unfold; this makes them more susceptible to hydrolysis.

Both the blog and the paper are worth reading.

My conclusion: the lye is consumed by the various reactions and therefore poses no safety concerns.

The purpose of dipping in lye (or other basic solution, like baking soda…or even baked, baking soda) is that it promotes coloring, as the solution reacts with the surface of the dough. It also promotes the Maillard reactions when the dough cooks. The result is even browning and that typical alkali flavor. If choosing lye, food grade is important, as commercial grades may include other, heavy metal, impurities. Lye is extremely caustic. So it must be used carefully! In pretzel and bagel making the solution is generally quite dilute…maybe around 3% lye in water. In both pretzel and bagel making, the product is typically given a brief bath in boiling water, after a dip in the lye solution. The boil and/or subsequent baking neutralized the alkali rendering it safe to eat.

The reason it is safe is three-fold.

First, the concentration is only 1% NaOH and the pretzels are only dipped for 10 seconds (see Snack Food Technology pages 180-182) which limits the amount of hydroxide per pretzel.

Second, the dough itself, for example protein of the dough, has acidic groups, such as amino acid side chains of lysine and tyrosine, which neutralize the hydroxide.

Finally, as explained in Effect of Alkali Dipping on Dough and Final Product Quality Journal of Food Science vol. 71, pages C209-C215, protein in the dough is partially hydrolyzed under the alkaline conditions. This exposes more terminal amino acid groups which also participate in neutralization.

The Snack Food Technology book cited above also explains:

If the caustic concentration becomes too high, there is not a complete conversion to sodium bicarbonate in the baking and drying cycles and the pretzels will be hot to the taste due to the residual sodium hydroxide

Lye will readily react with either amino-acids (producing respective sodium salts) or with fats (producing soaps), both reactants being readily present in dough. You don't need CO2 to neutralize it.

Ingesting small amounts of those end-products is indeed safe, and normally only a small quantity of lye is used in the process.

The references noted above have mostly looked at the specific chemical changes to the constituents of the dough and the species in solution. A few point to the Maillard reactions as a contributor to what is going on.

It is worth noting that the Maillard reactions are quite complex and involve a lot of intermediate products. However, in many cases the rate limiting factor is the pH of the constituents. It is possible to accelerate the reactions by raising the pH, and more Maillard products are produced if you let the process run for an extended period of time or raise the temperature which further increases the reaction rate. Some people don't believe that you can get the reaction to go at all at temperatures below 300°F, yet adding a little baking soda to a batch of onion soup and pressure cooking it (265°F) for 40 minutes will yield the same browning that much longer cooking of the onions produces in the classic technique.

So increasing the pH by using lye (pH 13) vs sodium carbonate (pH 10) vs sodium bicarbonate (pH 8) will facilitate a dramatic speed up the Maillard reaction rate, and subjecting the pretzel to high temperature in the oven will carry it out. What happens to the NaOH to detoxify it is most likely a combination of neutralization, dilution, and chemical conversion through interaction with other available species. I would not recommend eating dough dipped in lye without baking the dough first.

I am intrigued by the notion that the high pH breaks down the proteins into shorter amino acid sequences which facilitates the Maillard reactions but does not affect the rate constants.

food safety - Why is eating pretzels safe when they are bathed in lye? - Seasoned Advice

79461

anonymous@undisclosed.example.com (Anonymous) — Sat, 23 Nov 2024 12:02:10 +0000

How to bake croissant?

Last week, I made croissants. Everything was working properly until I reached the baking step.

First, I used convection settings and it was too hot, the butter was oozing and almost caught on fire. Then, I used regular settings. While the temperature was better, the butter was still oozing and the dough was swimming in a pool of melted butter.

Liste à puceIs the oozing to be expected?
Is there something to do to avoid that?
What settings are more appropriated for croissants?

Edit: I don't know if the rule of thirds applies in my recipe. Here it is:

Ingredients:

15g of yeast
15cL of water
15cL of lukewarm milk
500g of flour
10g of salt
40g of sugar
250g of butter

I set the temperature to 220°C on my oven. First in convection mode then in regular mode.

@droidnation mentioned that I should wait for 30 minutes between folding steps and to put the dough in the fridge during that period. I skipped since my recipe does not mention it. I probably need a better recipe.

As a regular croissant maker, and reading lots of croissant recipes from different french chefs, they all say the same information: the butter quantity should be the third of the doughs weight.

So if your dough measure about 900 grams. The butter used should be 300 grams.

I think you added a lots of butter into your dough and you didn't rest the dough enough in the fridge for at least 30 minutes between each folding step.

UPDATE

As a personal experience, to prevent butter from melting even before baking, let the shaped croissant rest at room temperature for couple of hours. Pop it up into the fridge for 30 minutes, then bake it.

This will prevent the butter from quickly melting and ruining the croissant layers. Usually, you should use European butter as it contain less amount of water. Try some french AOP butter (if you can find it), and the result would be different than using the commercial butter.

baking - How to bake croissant? - Seasoned Advice

82283

anonymous@undisclosed.example.com (Anonymous) — Sat, 23 Nov 2024 12:02:10 +0000

Does beating hot oil into eggs before cooking an omelette make a difference?

Usually, when I prepare an omelette, I pour oil in a cast iron pan and heat it. In the meantime, I prepare the eggs and I beat them fluffy. When the oil is pretty hot, I pour it in the eggs while beating them and finally I cook it in the pan.

As long as I can remember, I've done that following my mom's example. I assumed that it makes a difference but today my wife asked me why I was doing that. I couldn't find an answer other than “I always do like that”.

I'd like to know if this process have any value on the end result. If so, I could give her a better answer. If not, I will change my habits.

Not tried or heard of this before. I can only arm-chair experiment in my head until I try this out. This seems to be an encapsulation/spherification method.

I can see a thin “shell” of cooked eggs coagulating around the hot oil droplets, trapping them and preventing separation. With many tiny beads of egg encased oil (effective oil buoyancy reduced) in suspension and thus more fats locked in the eggs there is likely a richer mouth-feel. This would not be achievable otherwise. Pretty neat trick. Your mom sounds like a modernist cook!

In addition to adding fat (for flavor and more silky eggs) I've seen this technique used used to temper cold eggs before adding them to the skillet.

As to whether you should keep making eggs this way… there are so many ways to cook eggs, I'd suggest that you keep trying new ways so that you have many options for preparing delicious eggs.

Personally, I prefer scrambled eggs beaten with some cream and cooked over low heat with a pat of butter.

Does beating hot oil into eggs before cooking an omelette make a difference? - Seasoned Advice

84099

anonymous@undisclosed.example.com (Anonymous) — Sat, 23 Nov 2024 12:02:10 +0000

Looking for a Finnish bread name and recipe

About 20 years ago, I went to Finland to visit a friend and I had the opportunity to stay with her and her parents.

They treated me with home-made meals. It was really good.

I remember that they have a special bread which serves as a meal. It was filled with small fishes and an unknown sauce. When you cut it open, the content was flowing outside of the crust.

I asked my friend about it but she couldn't find an answer. I'd love to find the name of that bread / dish.

Sounds like kalakukko. From Wikipedia :

Kalakukko is a traditional food from the Finnish region of Savonia made from fish baked inside a loaf of bread. The Cornish pasty from Cornwall has the same basic idea of complete packed lunch. Kalakukko is especially popular in Kuopio, capital city of the Northern Savonia region. Kuopio is home to many kalakukko bakeries. The city also hosts an annual kalakukko baking contest.[1]

Traditionally, kalakukko is prepared with rye flour (like ruisleipä), although wheat is often added to make the dough more pliable. The filling consists of fish, pork and bacon, and is seasoned with salt (unless the pork is already salted). After being baked for several hours, traditionally in a masonry oven, kalakukko looks much like a large loaf of rye bread. If prepared correctly, bones of the fish soften and the meat and fish juices cook thoroughly inside the bread. This results in a moist filling.

fish - Looking for a Finnish bread name and recipe - Seasoned Advice

91741

anonymous@undisclosed.example.com (Anonymous) — Sat, 23 Nov 2024 12:02:10 +0000

What pepper is used in Sriracha sauce?

I am a great fan of hot sauces. Usually, they advertise what pepper they are using.

I cannot find that type of information on the Sriracha bottle I have at home. The only information I have is “chili”.

What is the pepper use in that recipe?

According to wikipedia they use red jalapenos.

Huy Fong Sriracha Sauce is made with a specific variety of red jalapeños which, at this point, is grown only for them.

Note that this is different from traditional Thai sriracha, which is made fruitier and less hot peppers like the goat pepper. If you haven't had this, I recommend picking up a bottle to keep alongside your Huy Fong, it's quite different tasting.

Non-traditional sriracha sauces, now made all over the world, may be made of any red, fleshy, hot pepper you can imagine. There's even a few green ones.

spicy hot - What pepper is used in Sriracha sauce? - Seasoned Advice

102288

anonymous@undisclosed.example.com (Anonymous) — Sat, 23 Nov 2024 12:02:10 +0000

Can I ferment blanched cabbage?

I've blanched some cabbage and I wonder if I can ferment it in order to have sauerkraut. Will it work? Will it be safe?

Edit I followed the recommendations and added some raw vegetables and a little bit more salt than usual. The fermentation process was fine and the end product was delicious. Note for future me, don't blanch cabbage for sauerkraut :) . It's less troubles.

That should work and be safe. The one thing I'd worry about is that blanching may have reduced the amount of lactic acid bacteria available for fermentation; that might delay fermentation, or even encourage the growth of unwanted microorganisms. If possible, I'd suggest mixing the blanched cabbage with a small amount of raw cabbage (or any raw vegetable, really) before salting and packing the sauerkraut, and keeping the salt content near the higher end of the range for sauerkraut.

Probably, two considerations; Depending on how much you cooked it and how you drain it it may mess-up the salt balance. And, I started my kruat with a little bakers yeast and sugar so did not rely on natural yeast , because you have killed the natural yeast you may need something to start it. I understand that the yeast produce lactic acid in homemade while commercial kraut has added acetic acid.

food safety - Can I ferment blanched cabbage? - Seasoned Advice

110527

anonymous@undisclosed.example.com (Anonymous) — Sat, 23 Nov 2024 12:02:10 +0000

Are dried elderberries safe to eat?

I know that in order to eat elderberries in a safe way, one has to cook them beforehand. Today, I found out that dried elderberries are a thing. That new knowledge arose some questions on food safety:

Is it safe to eat those dried berries?
If it is safe, then why?
If it is safe, what is the process to dry them at home?

All things are poison, and nothing is without poison; the dosage alone makes it so a thing is not a poison.“
(Paracelsus)

Like with so many things in life, it’s a question of willingness to take a risk and of personal health and individual metabolism.

The general rule is that raw elderberries shouldn’t be consumed because they contain cyanogenic glycosides, i.e. substances that can be transformed into cyanide and ultimately cause cyanide poisoning. As with all plant-based substances, the content can and will vary a lot depending both on the specific strain of plant and the environmental conditions, including soil composition, water or rain and change significantly during the life cycle and ripening stages. For elderberries, the content of cyanogenic glycosides decreases significantly in fully ripe berries, some researcher¹⁾ found as little as 0.0054 mg hydrogen cyanide equivalent per gram of berries, which is roughly 0.0001 mg per berry. Considering that a healthy adult human can safety ingest 0.02 mg per kg of body weight, a few ripe berries should be harmless enough. This is the same reason why eating a few apple pips (containing amygdalin, also a cyanogenic glycoside) is harmless.

The numbers above should also explain why individual reports of toxic effects vary so widely, from no effects at all to severe digestive issues.

If you want to consume unheated elderberries, I recommend you chose fully ripe berries and limit the intake to just a few initially (see the numbers above and go way below the statistically safe threshold because individual tolerances may be lower). Note that this post is not an endorsement, it’s just to help you make an informed decision.

The drying process is the same as for other berries - ensure good ventilation and place them on a cloth or fine netting, because the berries are so small. If you want to use a dehydrator, you may have to cover the trays with cloth or mesh if the slats are too wide. Consult the manual for settings.

food safety - Are dried elderberries safe to eat? - Seasoned Advice

¹⁾

Petra Demmer: Kapillarelektrophoretische Untersuchungen an cyanogenen Glykosiden. Inaugural-Dissertation zur Erlangung des Doktorgrades der Naturwissenschaften im Fachbereich Chemie und Pharmazie der Mathematisch-Naturwissenschaftlichen Fakultät der Westfälischen Wilhelms-Universität Münster. Münster 2004, urn:nbn:de:hbz:6-28659388497.